1. I’m sure that’s the way they see it. Any way is a good way so long as it’s not the truth.
   Notice the weird TukV4 at the top of the tree with 4 branches without any explanation. This must consist of the type A Van of the cat fancy with European origins, the other 3 are my samples. One branch is the Ankara Zoo type Angora, the other 2 the same, but wrongly identified as a mix of European and American breeds which are not found in Turkey or Cyprus. They are obviously a laboratory mix up with the American Turkish Van. They were reported as identical to Ankara Zoo cats in the later 2012 Study, except for one which had mysteriously morphed into a pure-bred fake Angora despite his kitten being 88.76% Ankara Zoo and grandmother coming from the Zoo. With this kind of UC Davis science we can change lead into gold and donkeys into flying elephants.

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2. Hi Michael. Where they put their foot in it is with their own description of natural breeds stating where they originated and must prove so in order to be registered. Concoctions and out-crossing hardly matter with made-up breeds, but Vans and Angoras are not made-up breeds. However in reality they are the result of massive out-crossing which violates their own prohibition on that. To get over this little problem their good friend Leslie Lyons cooks up a large number of Turkish street cats for the 2012 Turkish Cat Genetics Study which conveniently show identical markers to the cat fancy Vans and Angoras. The tricky part is explaining why these same samples were shown in the 2007″Rise of Cat Breeds” as being UNRELATED to cat fancy Vans and Angoras. Her own phylogenetic tree in the Tufts Canine and Feline Conference shows they are related to American and British breeds, not to Turkish random-bred cats. She doesn’t have even enough brains to make up a good story that stands up to scrutiny.

   

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   • To summarize: the American cat fancy screwed up big time but from their perspective they “refined” the breed and did wonderful work. I don’t think the cat fancy are really concerned with the finer points of origins, history, genetics and the purity of a cat breed. They are normally more interested in doing what suits them.

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3. Hi Michael. It depends which cats you are referring to. There is no relationship between the cat fancy Angoras and Vans and the genuine article in Turkey except in a minor way. The cat fancy has made up 2 fake breeds from non-Turkish cats of British and American origins. They added Siamese to produce an elegant cat with big close-set upright ears for the fake Angora. They arrogantly call this product a pure-bred pedigree Turkish Angora even though it doesn’t resemble the original in the slightest way. Why they would want to create a fake but make it look entirely different from the original is beyond me. It’s about as sensible as making a fake Rolex but one that looks like a Timex. Due to muddled studies and lack of mental clarity there is not much clear evidence for or against saying that the Turkish Angora and Turkish Van in Turkey are different breeds. There are samples of cat fancy Turkish vans with relatives from Turkey which even after several generation of breeding to other cat fancy Vans still show a weak trace genetic marker for Ankara Zoo Angoras. There are samples of Van patterned cats from Marmaris which are 80-90% Turkish Angoras (Ankara kedisi). The same minor trace markers are found in cat fancy “Angoras”.
   This suggests that Van and Angora in Turkey are the same breed. The Turks have not yet progressed to the point of recognising that their coloured SLH’d street cats are also Turkish Angoras, despite knowing that the pure-whites ones also come from the street. They use superficial and changeable eye and fur colour to determine a breed which is nonsense. See the photo of a street cat in Cappadocia, Turkey

   

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   • Wow, what a street cat. Love that cat by the way.

     I think it is about Turkey having domestic cats and that is that. The cats have a certain appearance. If one ignores all the “noise” surrounding the Turkish Angora and Van, in the end, you are left with cats living in Turkey. Moggies. Nice looking and specific to the area visually and genetically but that is the end of the discussion. The Angora and Van element, on the ground, in Turkey, overlaps. The distinction between the two has been artificially created by breeders.

     Most of the cat fancy stuff about these breeds is made up and created by the cat associations for their benefit.

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4. Hi Michael. There is a great deal of muddle over Turkish cats. Since Fatima and Orkide are white with odd eyes would be called Turkish Vans in Turkey. Due to this old Mother Riley way of thinking any blue-eyed or yellow-eyed kittens from them would not be Turkish Vans, but Turkish Angoras. They are genetically identical to cats from the Ankara Zoo, so technically they are Angoras. However since the cat fancy Vans and Angoras are different again being related to American and British breeds, the question arises, “How do genuine Turkish cats fit in?” The answer – “With difficulty!”. The genuine Turkish Angoras have to be registered as Turkish Vans because they have a similar sturdy morphology. The cat fancy standards for the “Turkish Angora” describe a fine-boned slender cat which effectively eliminates the genuine Angora, except when very young, sick, underfed, or out-crossed. You would have to cross an Ankara Zoo Angora with a Siamese to get close to the cat fancy impostor, The cat fancy bred Siamese to other breeds like the Persian to get their fake Angoras. Frankly you can’t trust word the cat fancy says.

   

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   • Some time ago, well before I read the information you have posted over the past months, I wrote an article, innocently, stating that the Turkish Van and Turkish Angora are the same cat. My argument was based on common sense not a knowledge of genetics etc.

     Are you saying (as I suggested) that the cat fancy has made two cats from one cat that comes from Turkey? Or have I got the wrong? The situation is very confused as you say.

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5. This is my niece’s cats Bella and Rob when they were kittens. This is picture I used when I won the Printcopia picture to painting prize here on PoC last year! I love it!

   

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   • Ohhh….arhhh 😉 Love the light coffee colours. They are pretty cats. Really nice photograph too. Charming.

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6. I hope to get a better photo of her daughter Orkide when she grows up a bit. She is also odd-eyed and show quality, but she is in her new home now. I can’t keep them all.

   

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   • This is a very nice picture. The colours for a background and the bright white coats and odd-eye colour all come together nicely.

     I am pleased I have set up this photo uploader because it is really nice to see your cats.

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7. Hi. This is Fatima.

   

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   • Aw, shoot, Harvey. That shot that you just put up for all of us to soak into our souls, those eyes…

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   • The eyes are awesome. I presume she is a classic Turkish Angora. The exact kind: white with odd-eyes, that the Turkish people like in the same way that the Japanese like the three coloured Japanese Bobtail.

     She would get some looks here in London.

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8. here’s my pretty cat, Hearken von Baskin, a silver classic tabby. A most gentlemanly kind of cat. Most polite.

   

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   • He is beautiful. He is a WOW cat. I see them rarely. I have seen about 10 WOW cats and I have seen about 25,000 cat photos at a guess.

     Thanks for showing us your gentlemanly, totally stupendous cat.

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     • Michael

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