TL;DR: Whatever is out there we can't see or measure, cats can sense. Doesn't mean it's ghosts or spirits unless that's what you call them. But it could be. Who knows?

Science does not need to explain everything to be a (the) valid way to observe, qualify and quantify the world around us. Science and faith do not need to be at war, but that's a political discussion nowadays that would take me more than 3000 characters or the typical attention span to get into.

In the faith/belief scheme of things, I am a pagan, with Kabbalistic/Qabalistic leanings. I spent some years of my life as a born-again fundamentalist Baptist, and I know the Bible (KJV to boot). I believe a pagan's scripture is written in the wind across the sand, or the texture of bark on a tree, but if we need a book, it would be a biology text, or the last edition of Scientific American. I hang out on atheist and agnostic pages on FB because I believe Americans have the right to NOT believe and I honor reason and secular humanism as the only rational way to run this country.

So all that said: A fair-minded atheist/agnostic/Rationalist should acknowledge that there are phenomena that exist that we cannot currently or maybe even ever measure. There is a famous psychology anecdote about the professor who provoked deja vu in his students by asking their parents to send a small item from home -- a wind up alarm clock being one of them -- that he would then place in a corner of his office, and then call the student who owned it in to see him. The students would later report that they could swear they'd been in his office before. Those little things *just outside our ability to perceive them* -- I think cats and dogs can perceive them. Their senses are so much more able to process things than ours.

Do I believe (since I cannot prove) that spirits remain after the body has gone for whatever reason? Or are there innate spirits in the land (such as devas)? I don't know but I accept that it's possible without damaging either Faith or Science. And if they are out there, I certainly think animals, which operate under different cognitive schemes than we do, might have a better shot at perceiving them. It's like the difference in sight between a mammal and an insect: we see in different spectra, and that makes all the difference.

Write me at dvdjunkie2008@aol.com. I check it more. May be a few days getting back. I have the flu and even having to miss work.

Is there a way to write to you about our interests away from POC? Our discussions could be irritating to "certain people".

Sincerely,

Hank Mick

The crawling out of my skin feeling is how my empathic ability works. I can feel when someone I love is in trouble even 100 miles away. And I have seen a demon in someone and the man's son was with me and remarked about the eyes changing. I don't think I've ever been so frightened in my life. I don't think my heart could take it if it happened today. I would like to know why no one has commented on Cocoa's strange photo. I thought that would be the first thing noticed.

I wish to remind many that spirits are incorporeal. In consequence, they do not disturb the air and all of those physical effects claimed, as here by Paw Paw John.

His essay is mounted on a version of the argument from creation also known as the teleological argument. This argument is quite old, going far back in the history of ideas, and it has been conclusively discredited, and for a long time now. Benedict Spinoza and David Hume made short shrift of it. The list of philosophical refutations of the teleological argument are many and to cite them here would exceed the permitted space. There is a large literature on this subject. I do not think that you would consult it because your mind is seemingly already made up.

Great post! Very eloquent and well thought out. Two thumbs up! No, that should be two paws up!

Now I'll stop posting. It's time to go outside with Monty, my dear furry friend and gift of God!

Just this one more and I promise I'll stop. I had to write about the story of Balaam's Ass from the Bible. Mostly 'cause I wanted to write the word ass and get away with it. Ass of course means donkey. Balaam's donkey sees an angel blocking the way. Balaam does not see it and starts to beat the donkey. God opens said donkey's mouth who says to Balaam, "Why are you beating me? Can't you see there's an angel blocking the way?" Balaam does not express any surprise in the fact that his ass just spoke to him, but just goes right on talking to the donkey like that kind of thing happens every day. So there's a cool story about an animal who perceived what his dense human companion did not.

I want to see the day when God opens the mouth of every abused animal to confront his abuser. C'mon, even if you don't believe in God or the Bible, who wouldn't want to see that? Every declawed cat, every tortured dog, every animal neglected or unfairly treated given a voice to confront the humans who hurt them. That would be a great day.

Until then I am glad that through PoC people like Elisa, Michael and Kattaddorra will continue to be the voice for those animals!

Wow! 3000 characters could not properly address this issue, but I will do my best.

First, we know that cats have a very heightened sense of hearing, far beyond what the human ear can perceive. We can only speculate about a cat's eyes. There is very little known for sure. Some believe that cats do not see the entire range of colors that humans do, but it is unlikely that cats can see beyond the normal light spectrum.

However, it is most likely the whiskers of a cat that makes it sensitive to things that we cannot see. We know that the whiskers of a cat are very sensitive to minor vibrations in the air. So, anything that would cause a change in the air would be picked up by a cat.

Second, do cats see ghosts? The short answer would be that a cat would be sensitive to any changes in the air (air disturbance, change in temperature, sound) that a spirit creature would make if it entered a room. The cat would appear to be "looking" that way because the whiskers would be pointed so to help the cat make sense of these unusual signals. As to if they actually "see" something will never be truly known, but we would do well to remember that cats use all of their senses to create a more balanced "view" of reality than humans do, so I pay very close attention whenever my cats react to something I cannot see or sense.

Third, many people do not believe in anything supernatural (God, ghosts, spirit creatures), not because there is no evidence for such things, but because it keeps them from having to acknowledge that they may not really be the center of the universe after all. As such, they refuse to ignore or blatantly dismiss anything, like the Bible, that tells them plainly that there is a God, that He has a plan, that He loves us, and that He wants to save us from our selves and our sin.

Cats do not have this problem. They are very well aware that there is a God, that there is a world beyond this one, and that, because they have suffered so much as a result of Humanity's sinfulness, there is a Judgment Day coming.

People often refer to cats and other such wonderful works of God's creation as "dumb animals". But the last time I checked, a dumb animal is one who, when presented with the wonder of a night sky, the complexity of life, the power of God's word contained in the Bible, or the majestic beauty of a simple cat, chooses to remain steadfast in its ignorance and continues to deny that there is anything more than what he or she determines to be.

Wow! 3000 characters could not properly address this issue, but I will do my best.

First, we know that cats have a very heightened sense of hearing, far beyond what the human ear can perceive. We can only speculate about a cat's eyes. There is very little known for sure. Some believe that cats do not see the entire range of colors that humans do, but it is unlikely that cats can see beyond the normal light spectrum.

However, it is most likely the whiskers of a cat that makes it sensitive to things that we cannot see. We know that the whiskers of a cat are very sensitive to minor vibrations in the air. So, anything that would cause a change in the air would be picked up by a cat.

Second, do cats see ghosts? The short answer would be that a cat would be sensitive to any changes in the air (air disturbance, change in temperature, sound) that a spirit creature would make if it entered a room. The cat would appear to be "looking" that way because the whiskers would be pointed so to help the cat make sense of these unusual signals. As to if they actually "see" something will never be truly known, but we would do well to remember that cats use all of their senses to create a more balanced "view" of reality than humans do, so I pay very close attention whenever my cats react to something I cannot see or sense.

Third, many people do not believe in anything supernatural (God, ghosts, spirit creatures), not because there is no evidence for such things, but because it keeps them from having to acknowledge that they may not really be the center of the universe after all. As such, they refuse to ignore or blatantly dismiss anything, like the Bible, that tells them plainly that there is a God, that He has a plan, that He loves us, and that He wants to save us from our selves and our sin.

Cats do not have this problem. They are very well aware that there is a God, that there is a world beyond this one, and that, because they have suffered so much as a result of Humanity's sinfulness, there is a Judgment Day coming.

People often refer to cats and other such wonderful works of God's creation as "dumb animals". But the last time I checked, a dumb animal is one who, when presented with the wonder of a night sky, the complexity of life, the power of God's word contained in the Bible, or the majestic beauty of a simple cat, chooses to remain steadfast in its ignorance and continues to deny that there is anything more than what he or she determines to be.

I would like to say that we all interpret what we experience based on our worldview. We try to make meaning out of what appears meaningless, as we are prone to fear what we do not understand. It's entirely possible the "wrong" feelings in what we would call haunted places have natural, scientific explanations. There is much science has yet to discover. One woman on FB commenting on this article said that there was a place on her farm that all her horses avoided, seeming to react in fear to it. The same spot gave the humans heebeegeebees. So what is causing that? It doesn't have to be a ghost, demon or spirit. It could be a physical or chemical cause, yet unknown.

Personally, prayer helped me deal with growing up around one of "those" places. When I wandered from the faith of my youth two things brought me back: studying the complexities of the human body and coming to doubt that such a magnificent machine could assemble itself, and the realization that if the devil is real then Jesus must be real also. This is my worldview. Perhaps growing up where I did actually propelled me toward Christ, as I felt that I was frequently under assault by demonic forces. I cannot know for sure what the cause of my discomfort was, and I try to leave that question in God's left hand where it belongs. (Not very successfully, however.) Growing up, I survived what would be a difficult experience for any human to endure, whatever his/her worldview.

Other visitors to this site may have a different world view from mine. But we can't deny weird things do happen, as evidenced by the fact that animals notice these things also. This shows that our animal companions are closer to us, more like us, than many humans will admit. Whatever the cause of the strange experiences and creepy feelings many of us have had, I personally choose to focus instead on God's right hand, open to give me every blessing, including the knowledge that nothing can separate me from the love of God which is mine in Christ Jesus.

The face is mine and the body is an imikimi.com. I wanted to do myself as a belly dancer but it just didn't happen. LOL.

What a great post, Elisa. I hope it saves many a cat. You asked me if I lived with cats. Oh yes! I adore cats.

I enjoyed our colloquy yesterday. You are a good sport.

Elisa wrote to me (post at POC):"You always make my day! :)"

Ditto, Elisa. And thanks!

Is that you in that very Victorian frontispiece to your website? It reminds me of something elegant by Alfons Mucha. Have a look at this site to see elegant use of a Mucha painting:http://myleftwing.com/

BTW, the chemicals inducing these false perceptions mentioned by Hank here were not hallucinogens. The experiences seemed totally real to the persons experiencing them, but they were actually chimerical.

I want to describe things that I've experienced and also how our pets reacted. When I was five years old I was out on my swing set, swinging and singing songs from Sunday school. My mom heard me singing my heart out to Jesus and said aloud, "The devil's never going to get my little girl!" At that moment a candle picked itself up and flew across the room at her, dropping at her feet. We had moved in when I was four years old and my first impression of the house was that it was already full of people. How were we supposed to live there? My sister says that the house "never sleeps." Only my mother has had poltergeist type experiences. She claims this is because she has a habit of "smarting off to the devil." I contend she can come and smart off all she wants in my house and nothing is going to fly through the air. Being in my parents' house feels like sitting on top of a powder keg that's about to explode. That something is very wrong there is conspicuous by its absence here in my home. Did our cats sense anything? I'd say yes. When the cat would stare and her fur stand on end I was also feeling whatever was bothering her very keenly. We had one cat run away, never to return. I think he didn't like the house.

My parents know there's something. When I was seven years old I was helping Dad in the basement and I felt just terrified, like I needed to crawl out of my own skin to get out of there if necessary. My father's response was, "Don't you believe in Jesus?" And that has always been my parents' way of dealing with it, all of it: the sound of footsteps upstairs when no one else is home, the sightings of children in 19th century garb in the front yard (I never saw them), the sound of a huge crowd outside and you run out and there's nothing and nobody, just silence... Agree or disagree with me, but I am a human being who had a rather harder time growing up than she needed to have had. I'm glad for Monty, that he's here and not there. He never stares at unseen things with his fur on end.

I dealt with the "wrongness" according to the example shown by my parents. I laid in the dark in terror and I prayed for Jesus to send the Archangel Michael to protect me. I didn't know what was wrong, but I felt like we really needed to pull out the big guns to fight it. I continue to pray for the protection of my parents in that place. I believe their faith in Christ and my prayers in Jesus' name keep whatever it is at bay. I still feel like it's a powder keg. Someday after my parents are gone and the house is sold the new owners will do something stupid like dabble in the occult to find out what's wrong with the house and then that place will explode. You'll get to see it on one of those ghost hunter shows. It'll be a good one, I have no doubt. I just hope nobody dies.

You always make my day! 🙂

Hi there, Ruth (Monty's Mom);

Your interesting post reminds me of research which demonstrates that the chemical environment of the brain can induce perceptions of flying, out-of-body experiences, experiences interpreted by the subjects as mystical, being in a tunnel, "mystical" light, and so forth.

This veses the question of how we interpret our experiences and whether our perceptions are reliable or what we think that they are or mean.

It seems to me that many people have experiences involving the unknown. Their interpretations will vary based on their worldview. I have many friends and aquaintances who have seen, heard or felt something they can't explain. Most will try to explain it anyway, in one of four ways: 1) it was a ghost, 2) it was a demon/angel, 3) it was an echo of the past somehow preserved and visible in the present or 4) it was simply overactive imagination. I will not attempt to argue which it could be. Even if it's always truly number 4 (and at least sometimes it probably is) people are still having these experiences. Whether or not animals share these types of experiences is an interesting question. There is probably a number 5 also: People making it up for popularity or profit. They desire to share a good story and be the center of attention or they own a bed and breakfast and figure a "haunted" hotel will be more exciting/appealing to guests than your standard non-haunted place to spend the night. I believe most of the stories on the program "Haunted History" fall into category number 5.

Elisa, here are citations to the two standard works in English:

Elisa:

The standard work for the OT is:
CHARLES, R.H. - Apocrypha and Pseudipigrapha of the Old Testament in English (2 vols.) Oxford, 1913. 684, 871,
This is still in print and in all good libraries. pphttp://www.oxfordscholarship.com/view/10.1093/0198261829.001.0001/acprof-9780198261827

For the NT extra-canonical writinigs, the standard work was that of Montague Rhodes James, This is now available also in a newly edited version:_The Apocryphal New Testament: A Collection of Apocryphal Christian Literature in an English_by J. K. Elliott.

Here is an extensive table of contents and blurb, so that you can see who and what is included:

An English translation of the oldest and most important early Christian non‐canonical writings. It is based on the earlier collection edited in 1924 by Montague Rhodes James. The book is divided into the conventional categories of gospels, acts, epistles, and revelatory texts. A long subsection deals with stories of Jesus’ infancy and childhood. Another section deals with fragmentary gospel texts on papyrus. The bulk of the book is given over to second‐century legends of individual apostles. Another section covers apocryphal acpocalypses. An appendix gives a selection of stories about the Virg ... More

Keywords: Apocryphal acts, Apocryphal apocalypses, Apocryphal epistles, Apocryphal gospels, assumption of the Virgin, Christian Apocrypha, citation index, infancy gospels, M. R. James, non‐canonical literature, text bibliography, text introduction, theme index, Agrapha, Apocryphal Gospels, Birth Gospels, Fragments of Gospels on Papyrus, Infancy Gospels, Lost Gospels, Ministry Gospels, Passion Gospels, Pilate Cycle, Acts of Andrew, Acts of John, Acts of Paul, Acts of Peter, Acts of Thomas, Apocryphal Acts, Pseudo‐Clementine Literature, Secondary Acts of John, Secondary Acts of Paul, Secondary Acts of Peter, Apocryphal Epistles, Correspondence of Paul and Seneca, Epistle of the Apostles, Epistle to the Laodiceans, Epistula Apostolorum, Letter of Christ and Abgar, Letter of Lentulus, Shorter Epistles, Apocalypse of Paul, Apocalypse of Peter, Apocalypse of Thomas, Apocryphal Apocalypses, Assumption of the Virgin, Bartholomew the Apostle, Book of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, Letter of James, Questions of Bartholomew, Sibylline Oracles, Visio Pauli
Bibliographic Information
Print publication date: 1993 Print ISBN-13: 9780198261827
Published to Oxford Scholarship Online: November 2003 DOI:10.1093/0198261829.001.0001
------------------------------------------

The Infancy Gospel of Thomas is one of which you well may have heard.

For Patristics, there are several excellent series in English. If you have a seminary or good theological bookstore, you can peruse them.

I'll be here. And the reason I didn't use the word "seem" in the title has to do with Google rankings. It's what gets stories found on the internet. Should a person who has a cat see something that isn't there, they're going to search "cats see ghosts" or something similar. It's all a matter of being found. I know I'll write another off the wall article in the near future and we can engage in friendly combat.

Elisa, you are a nice interlocutor and kind. Unlike your erstwhile defender "Kitty Novich" who is, apparently, in league with those harridans infecting POC from time to time. Her arguments are non-sequiturs, or ad hominem false flag attacks. She accuses of things which never occurred, non-existent attacks on others.I expect now a flood of abusive posts from her sort.

I have sincerely enjoyed our colloquy, Elisa.

To answer some of your enquiries, I am an Emeritus Professor of Patristics and Intellectual History. I do not maintain a blog. I have and have had cats all my life. And yes, they stare at, apparently, nothing I can see, and dart at the walls sometimes.

When, as in your last post (so-far posted) you explain your version of Pascal's wager, I can understand your position and even sympathise with it. You left out the damnation in your last version.

I have got to go for now; see you again, perhaps.

I watched a documentary about books that didn't make the cut and was very interested but forgot to take notes. Wasn't the Book of Enoch one of them. Would love to know which you'd recommend as I'd like to read more on them. Not that it would change my Christian beliefs. A lot of religions believe in reincarnation. I, on the other hand, am convinced there's such a thing as genetic memories. I guess different things make sense to different people. I try not to knock people down over their beliefs when they differ from my own.

Elisa, I also have acquaintances who believe that we all came from outer space to earth. I do not argue with such people: it is futile and conduces to high blood pressure, or mirth. You ask where I think the book called "bible" comes from? Well, it happens that at one time in my life I was a patristics scholar. As intellectual history, the writings of the Church Fathers are fascinating, to see how they argued their cases. I have studied biblical origins.

My answer to you is that I think the bible a collection of ahistorical writings compiled over a long period of time and written by primitive tribalists. You may know that the present-day canon of the bible was established by lot in Œcumenical Church councils; voted upon! This was fraught with church politics. Indeed the establishment of the Nicaeo-Constanopolitan consensus on the person of Jesus and of the persons of the holy trinity, so-called, was also the result of politicking and toing and froing. The books that did not make the cut make fascinating reading.

Naw, Elisa, the bible is entirely a human rube goldberg thing. And it is full of truly horrifying brutality, OT and New. There may be some historical elements in these tribal writings, but on the evidence of the whole, it is mythmaking and bad historicism.

I agree with you totally, Missy and Parker can behave quite oddly at times (almost freaking out) and it would concern me deeply because I could not see anything but occasionally I "feel" something. i accept their behaviour now and we comfort and protect each other. None of us are delusional in what we believe but we are broadminded. Air isn't visible either but we know it exists. thanks for confirming my belief. :-))

I would love to read your blog if you have one. So do you have a cat? You could write a great article for PoC if you do. I'm serious. You're a born writer and I'm seriously not mocking you. What are your favorite subjects? Mine are cats, dogs and genealogy. And domestic violence since I lived with a psychopath for 6 years and developed a fondness for prayer.

As far as religion goes, I'd rather try to live my life as a good person and believe in a loving God and die with nothing waiting for me and find it was all a myth than to lead a Godless life and be wrong. But that's just my opinion.

I am curious to know who you people think you are?? How DARE you mock Elisa! She is entitled to write her opinions and you are entitled NOT to read them! Putting cats in danger?? Familiars?? Don't be ridiculous!! People who are lucky enough to have a familiar would NEVER put them in danger!! Witchcraft?? Accusing a Wiccan of worshiping Satan is like accusing an Athiest of worshiping God! Where do get this stuff?? Oh, ya. You read in a "book," so it must ne true!! Just because you believe one way, it has NO regard in how others believe. Elisa has been here for all of us with her wonderful information and has educated us ALL. You have NO right to disrespect her because she doesn't believe the same as you! Show some respect!!!

I have a best friend who is a non believer. He believes the Bible is a book of fairy tales written by ET's when they first arrived on earth. Any comments on that one?

I respect my friends beliefs and know there's no changing his beliefs. Just interested in what you think. Where do you think the Bible actually comes from?

Keep in mind several chapters were written by different men centuries apart who had no knowledge of each other yet who told the same Biblical stories.

If, as those of your persuasion assert, god is omnipotent, omnipresent, and inerrant, and if this god is the creator of heaven and earth, things seen and unseen, then who are we to lobby this sort of god, to beseech him to abandon his assertedly perfect knowledge and judgment, to do what WE want him to do?

The whole things reeks.

Elisa, the Ten Commandments you cite are only ancient Hebrew tribal laws to regulate property.

Also, Moses is said to have ascended a mountain and to have returned with these laws graven in stone. Funny thing, the same tale is told of Joseph Smith. Different stones, different laws.

I'd prefer it had you said that cats SEEM to see things we cannot see. We have absolutely no empirical proof that they do indeed see things we cannot see. All your case rests upon anecdotal so-called evidence, which is absolutely worthless in determining the truth or falsity of a proposition.

We can never establish the truthfulness of a proposition definitively; we can only attempt to falsify it. This is well established. Until the hypothesis is falsified, it is neither proven nor disproved. And saying that "1000 Frenchmen cannot be wrong" is sheer nonsense. Of course everyone can be wrong.

A cat stares fixedly; a cat darts and lunges at nothing so far as we can see. We then invent scenarios in attempts to explain these phenomena. The phenomena are not so proven, not at all.

Seeing may be believing, but not actually seeing what one fancies to be seeing is futile as explanation. And belief does not establish fact. Nor "faith". And in the sphere of religion, there have been a myriad of gods and religions purporting to establish as fact their "explanations" of our lives and of universe. Where are they now? Where are all those false gods now? Can you assert with a straight face that the current round of gods and religions are truer than the others? On what grounds?

If channeling God means I read the Bible, then I guess I channel God. I believe in the 10 commandments and I believe God is real. Never thought to call it channeling. In my neck of the woods we like to call it "praying"

Whoever this Mick person is, he certainly has a lot of hostility toward God and His people. May he learn to find the source of his anger before it destroys him.

I'm only saying cats can see things we can't and I wanted to get the opinion of others on whether their cats do the same. I got my answer in that they do.

As far as the Bible is concerned, I'll defend my faith as I expect others to defend theirs. As I said before, I have friends from all religions and from no religion. Biblical characters were known to see both angels and demons. Saying cats can see "something" is not putting them in danger.

What a lot of you may not remember is my first articles for PoC were about witchcraft and cats. That is the one and only subject given to me by Michael (PoC) that was an assignment, meaning I didn't pick the topic. I managed to get through it, but it was a difficult subject for me. It was written as three separate articles. I don't like to think of cats being used in satanic rituals. As a teen I used to a place where these rituals took place to try to break them up. There would be bones on the ground where animals had been sacrificed. I had completely forgotten doing this years ago until a high school friend reminded me of it. I can assure you PoC supports any subject I've written on. Michael reads them and makes any corrections he sees fit.

In case you don't recall, Michael has been highly critisized on many occasions but freedom of speech is important for this site.

I hate that I've lost anyone's respect but it happens. I do write about some unusual topics, but I hope I balance them out with informative topics.

I know what I've experienced in my lifetime. I doubt anyone out there hasn't had an unusual experience at some point in their life and want to know if others have had a similar experience. Mine has been with photographs having strange effects and also with encounters with what I like to call my guardian angel. I've been saved twice from wrecks and had witnesses who know something unusual happened.

Its OK with me if the readers here don't believe in angels or demons because that's your right.

You certainly have the right to mock me. I expect some dishevel every now and then. But I don't consider myself as putting cats at risk. To say that is to blow this article way out of proportion.

By reinforcing images of cats as consorting with ghosts and spirits, as familiars of witches, you are endangering cats.

What kind of god is that, who unleashes his "wrath" on people who do not believe a silly, implausible book written by a bunch of primitive people centuries ago?

As to the bible predicting things happening today, it is like the horoscopes in daily newspapers: they are intentionally written vaguely and deal in generalities to try to stave off people ridiculing their wild inaccuracy. And note that those foolish enough to make more detailed predictions, such as those charlatans saying they know when the end of this world will take place, well they get bupkis and scorn when their predictions and interpretation of things they think they find in their bibles is revealed to be a bunch of foolishness.

First Reiki, now this. This site is too classy to publish this dumbass stuff. This is pandering to get hits. Are POC directors so desperate as to stoop to this? Where are the editorial standards?

What you are proposing, Elisa, is old as the hills and is called "Pascal's Wager". So, you'd prefer a life of silly ignorance to discovering here and now that it is all ridiculous credulity.
Do you also believe that the Flying Sphaghetti Monster will get you if you don't believe his claims, too? Better not take a chance and just believe it all, just in case?

I suppose that this ia all a trumped up cause célèbre just to make controversy and we who take exception are just playing into it. But it so sticks in the craw.

I used to respect you, Elisa.

Yes, you do have a right to express this nonsense, but we have a right to mock it.

Everyone has their own opinion on religion. I have friends from all religions and from non believers. As to the Bible being true, the events happening today were predicted during biblical days. Of course I don't believe everything I read while researching stories. I'm more likely to believe in things I've experienced. I'd rather believe in the Bible and it turn out false than not to believe and suffer God's wrath.

So glad to hear that you channel god and know what he thinks and wants.

Do you believe everythig you read?

As to the Bible, Gershwin's "Sportin' Life" said it best:

"The things that you're liable/To read in the Bible/It ain't necessarily so."

It is futile to discuss with the religious fanatics: their minds are pre-made up:

"My mind is made up so don't confuse me with facts."

And their "evidence" is evidence of nothing but credulity. Anecdotal accounts are not acceptable proofs.

This thread looks like Reiki redux. Good for internet hits, but a disaster for clear thinking.

The Bible teaches there are angels and demons on this earth. Yes I believe strongly in guardian angels. And I've read enough on demons to know they're even inside the bodies of religious leaders and politicians. I'm merely pointing out that if a guardian angel is in the room with you, your cat is likely to see if even if you can't. I don't dabble in the occult. I study how demons operate as God wants Christians to be prepared and the best book to study them is the Bible. I guess I'll have the those who question Gods existence after me next.

Dear Cat Lovers,

We are friends and inter-faith colleagues. We urgently remind you that belief in, and dabbling with, ghosts, spirits, and the occult are serious sins and forbidden to Christians and Jews.

Ghosts? Spirits? Wings?

It's all shameful balderdash for cullies and the gullible. I like Eliza right well, but this is outrageous!

Humans are notorious for imagining things which do not exist. Your "citations" are meaningless so far as proving these things are concerned. They are all anecdotal.

These fictions give comfort. OK. But they are not real even if efficacious.

The burden of proof is not on me, to prove a negative, which cannot be done. The burden of proof is on you, for you attempt to assert a positive proposition.

I usually dream about a loved one after they die. They look great and tell me they're OK and are at peace. This didn't happen after mama died. I woke up one morning as the covers were being pulled off of me and mama shouting "Get up and clean my house!!!" Needless to say I got up in a hurry.

Archie moves things on us then puts things back at a later time. We just found the Lite Salt after it being missing for about 2 months. Go figure!

I know my Kitties see 'Spirits' when they start staring in the same direction at something in the room but do not get up to investigate, it is usually over my shoulder. If it was a bug of some sort believe me, they would not waste any time trying to get it. If it was a noise, one of my cats would be all bug-eyed due to the fact that he is a 'fraidy-cat' and would want to hide. My Mom and Dad are the visitors! Also, my old kitties will visit. I will catch something out of the corner of my eye, though I am not sure which kitty it is! It can be like a fast movement of 'something' low to the floor usually, or sometimes just a 'presence' I sense.
I went to see Lisa Williams - a medium, two years ago. She called me by name in a room of over 1000 people. She said my Mom was coming through. Everything she said was true, some pretty funny stuff, too! One thing was that she (my Mom) liked what I had done with the room. After she died, I had to take her cats to my house and had fixed up a room just for them. Pretty neat!!