Discussing the Poll on Declawing and Devocalisation

Well said Kathleen. Of course I agree with you totally.

You make the good point that if devocalisation was less tricky vets would do it far more and promote it.

It is pure circumstance that declawing is less life threatening.

But the underlying mentality of the vets is the same: the cat or dog is an animal that we can do as we like with. They are to be used for our benefit.

This is a very crude, old fashioned concept that goes back hundreds of years and more. It is the kind of mentality that the Egyptians had 2,500 BC when wildcats were first domesticated.

American vets are both advanced in their surgical skills and equipment etc. but backward in their mentality.

And they love money. They feel that they deserve to earn good money. All those hours studying. All that hard work.

Don’t get me wrong but there is a certain degree of unsophistication amongst the American vets. You only have to watch those horrible declaw videos they make. They sound like car mechanics. They sound stupid to me. And they are certainly not gods to me.

The American public should challenge them, test them and ask challenging questions. They won’t have answers.

The American public are too compliant.

I for one am happy to see some discussion possibly starting about some of the deeply-rooted cultural beliefs that help to support declawing in North America, because it IS deeply rooted and changing people’s attitudes about it WILL take time.

I think Michael is right when he points out that vets dictate the attitudes of pet owners in the US, and I think the findings of the poll regarding the different views of declawing and devocalizing confirm this. I don’t know how people feel about doctors or vets in the UK or other countries, but here in the US we seem to have granted them a near-godlike status, and neither their authority nor their opinions are routinely questioned by many people. The pet owners in this poll were found to be more against devocalizing because far more VETS are against devocalizing in the US. The same vets who continue to promote declawing as a harmless procedure when it is not will refuse to perform a devocalization, for the MOST part at least. I have never encountered a vet who will perform or recommend devocalizing. The reason for this is because it is an inherently more delicate and risky procedure to PERFORM, and vets who do it stand a significantly greater chance of having their patient die right there on the operating table, and this would make them LOOK bad, so they choose not to do it. Declawing, on the other hand, despite how devastating it can be for the cat, is a fairly simple procedure for vets to perform, so they aren’t afraid to perform it. Say what you will about the attitudes of pet owners, but I cannot see significant change happening with them UNTIL we can effect more of a change in attitudes within the veterinary community. They do set the tone for the entire debate, and as long as vets themselves find declawing acceptable, their recommendations and reassurances are going to carry more weight with the American public than anything that can be said or shown to them by anyone outside the veterinary field. This is why I think that finding, promoting and publicizing the good vets who refuse to declaw is so vital. It shows the public that there is disagreement in the veterinary field over the acceptability of declawing, AND it shows vets that their colleagues who don’t declaw ALSO don’t lose their client base as a result.

It’s incredible to me that people should even have a say in whether declawing is cruel or not because it so obviously is cruel.
For anyone to vote it shouldn’t be banned is a sign of that person being immune to a cats pain and is entirely a wrong person to have a cat in their charge.
As for the US doctors who do this evil surgery they and their entire staff who condone it by working under the same roof should be arrested and made to pay for their cruelty just as they rightfully would be in our country.

It’s disgusting this cruel practice still goes on in the 21st centuary. Cats have claws for a reason just as we have nails, how would these so called cat lovers like to have their nails removed? I think not.

Maybe some owners have their pets claws removed to stop them damaging furniture or scratching. If this is the case they shouldn’t have a cat, one of the consequences for living with a cat is the odd bit of damage, there are humane ways to deal with this.

I totally agree any form of so called “cosmetic surgery” on animals is cruel & barbaric. It was only recently here in the UK that tail & ear docking was banned in dogs.

In my opinion any owner who resorts to declawing a cat dosen’t deserve the pleasure of owning one.

Outlaw this barbaric practice NOW.

I agree with you. This horrible argument that declawing saves lives is actually wheeled out when vets are challenged. I remember it coming out at a city council meeting to ban declawing – I think it was in Burbank.

You have told me that there is no foundation for it. It is also wrong because it is building one wrong – declawing – upon another wrong – relinquishment for no good reason.

Thanks for your comment. We need a definitive study that is accepted by both sides – i.e. jointly instructed and prepared.

Yes, it is difficult to interpret poll results. In my opinion, to do this one accurately, it would ask a whole series of questions with part 1. asking their current opinion, and part 2. would ask their opinion AFTER people had been given the facts about declawing.

There’s also the survey info from Dr. Hofve’s article, “Declawing and Science”,

If declawing was banned…

“While veterinarians have opined that up to 75% of people who request declawing would get rid of their cat if surgery couldn’t be done (thus providing the rationale that declawing somehow “saves” cats), a survey of their own clients found that only 4% would euthanize or relinquish if declawing weren’t an option. (It is a well-known tendency among veterinarians to vastly underestimate both the resources and the compassion of their clients. They don’t know, because they don’t ask.)

In a survey of Canadian veterinarians, only 102 were willing to venture a guess as to how many of their clients would have given up their cats if not for declawing (their estimate was 57%). This brief (1-1/2 page) article has become the foundation for claims that declawing “saves” cats’ homes or lives. The entire argument rests on this flimsy excuse that was proved completely false by the next study by the same author. (Landsberg GM. Declawing is controversial but saves pets. A veterinarian survey. Vet Forum 1991;8:66-67.)

A survey of 276 clients (of those same veterinarians who guessed that 57% of their clients would have gotten rid of their cats) found that a whopping 4% would have seriously considered doing so. Because this study was published in a journal that few vets even know exists, it has remained obscure, and most vets who favor declawing use only the flawed and 99%-wrong figures. (Landsberg GM. Cat owners’ attitudes toward declawing. Anthrozoos 1991;4:192-197.)”

The problem with polls is they can be manipulated sometimes by either side of voters so you can’t take them seriously.
There are times when I’ve felt so strongly about the result of a poll that I’ve cleared my history and had more votes and because I could do it so could others once they cottoned on.
Even if you can’t do that polls can be distorted because of where they are asked.
As we’ve said a million or more times,if all vets stuck to their oath there would be no animals suffering from any uneccessary surgery at all.

Interesting stuff, Michael; however, the question that comes to my mind is this: Why not make our own video for YouTube with all the horrific facts and link it to the videos of all of the pain and suffering the cats incur. Seems to me it could somehow be linked up to the one with the disabled comments (at least for awhile) so those viewing the disabled comment video can then link onto ours with the real facts. Perhaps even the title of our anti-declaw video could be similar to the pro-claw one so people see our link too.

Thanks Ruth. I agree. I forgot to mention it and thanks for reminding me. America was, until recently, the powerhouse of the world regarding commerce and making money (China has taken over).

In which case it is the vets, in chasing money, who are probably the major problem. I have always felt that they were. It is in their power to change everything at a stroke.

I guess the customers share the blame as in protecting their couch/sofa they are indirectly making a decision based on money.

America’s problem has very little to do with Biblical teachings, distorted or not. It has to do with the love of money and possessions. Martin Luther called it “chasing after mammon” and the word mammon includes all the things of this world– money, fame, power and possessions. Capitalism works. I’m a huge believer in its power to motivate people to work hard and in so doing serve their fellow man. Isn’t it amazing that perfect strangers do things for us like serve us meals, provide us with things we need, care for our health and fix our cars? Luther says good things about this work we do– our callings. But capitalism allows opportunities for wealth beyond the dreams of avarice. There need hardly be any of us poor who are willing to work, and the poorest among us have all the modern conveniences. To the extent that America has embraced capitalism over socialism we have had prosperity. The 1980’s under Reagan were called “the decade of greed.” And therein lies the problem. Human beings are sinful and flawed and come to worship the god of mammon very easily, especially when it is so easy to become wealthy. It becomes a religion to make all the money you can. The only sin is to not take advantage of this opportunity. The only commandment is to have the nicest stuff. These people sit by me in church, but we don’t worship the same god. The God of the Bible says we have dominion over animals And shows us what that means. The Good Shepherd lies down His life for His sheep. When the god is mammon the animals don’t have a chance.

Yes it all depends on who conducts the poll and who they ask of course too.
It seems as if we make a bit of progress with the education of the ignorant who are pro declaw then something comes up to make us think are we wasting our time.
I expect declawing doctors want us to give in and let them continue their abuse of cats in peace but want can be their master because I think a lot of us are determined to keep on with our educating.
Devocalisation is horrible too but unless we are not hearing of a lot of cases,it doesn’t seem to be as popular as declawing.

Hi Ruth. Thanks for the figures from about.com. They are quite different to the figures that I have turned up.

This one:

No. I disapprove of declawing cats (3056) 66%

Is almost opposite to the one highlighted in red in the poll above (60% of pet owners accept or approve).

Based on what you have told me that the poll that I refer to is inaccurate. The about.com is also possibly not from a cross section of society.

This is one of the problems. We don’t have conclusive facts. Things are too muddy. Perhaps the person who compiled the poll in my article is biased – who knows?

The results of a poll on About.com cats
Is your cat declawed ?
Yes, done by a previous owner, but I wouldn’t declaw (266) 5%
Yes, done by me, but I’d never do it again
(298) 6%
Yes, done by me, and I’d do it again
(764) 16%
No. I disapprove of declawing cats
(3056) 66%
No, but I’m thinking about it
(223) 4%
Total votes 4607
Interesting figures. Most people disapprove on there.

I can’t understand Americans not wanting a law for the welfare of animals. In England we were very happy when our Animal Welfare Act was passed because those of us who truly love animals were glad that animal abusers would be prosecuted.
In the USA there would be no need for a law to ban declawing if the very people who are supposed to put animal welfare first, the vets, did just that.
But instead they deny it causes suffering and they hide the problems it can cause. We only have to watch a pro declaw video on YouTube and see that comments are disabled. The vets who make those videos don’t want any comments telling the truth, they don’t want to stop making money out of that cruel surgery.
I hate any cosmetic surgery on any animal but I think declawing is the cruellest surgery of all.
Most people are against devocalisation of dogs because their wounds and distress is so obvious. The wounds and distress of cats are hidden away behind closed doors, the cat stoically accepting his fate and adjusting to a disabled life.
In my opinion anyone who thinks any cosmetic surgery is acceptable does not love animals, nor even like them come to that.
The 16% in the poll above who say yes done by me and I’d do it again are obviously the sort of people who think they are superior to animals and those sort of people should not have any cat in their power !