Hi Rudolph.
A WCF judge once looked at my Minos, the one in the picture, and said she is a Persian. I think he meant an early Persian without the flattened nose. However the DNA results from UC Davis show clearly that the Persian belongs to the West European group and is no way related to the Mediterranean group much less the Turkish Angora of the Zoo or the contemporary American Angora. The genetic signatures of these three breeds are quite distinct without even any trace markers to show common origins or crossbreeding. I asked Prof Leslie Lyons when the 2 types of Angora diverged. This was in order to determine at what date any outcrossing began, before their introduction into the USA or after, but of course this was not possible because they have entirely different and unrelated origins. . .
The LH cats in Mumbai are interesting but could have been imported from just anywhere for the very purpose of breeding and selling them. Their existence in India proves nothing.
The scruffy cat is actually in rather good shape considering the lamentable conditions they are kept under. Their fur is very soft, dense, and easily forms knots. They are as difficult to groom and take care of as any Persian.

If the cat in the zoo that looks shabby in its original form is the authentic "Turkish Angora", than Mumbai's Crawford Market pet shops have numerous cats of this type which they pass of as "Persian cats". My own "Doll-faced Persian cat" Matahari which i purchased from a pet shopresembles more of the "Turkish angora breed" with long legs and a slim body.Her kitten "Matata" whom i bred with another "Turkish Angora" type "Doll Faced Persian" resembles the authentic "Traditional persian cat", a robust short body with a bushy tail. Photographs of "Matahari" and "Matata" are in "Picture of cats" on which i have written different topics about their peculiarities. Ultimately, it seems that the " TRADITIONAL PERSIAN CAT" and "Turkish Angora" are almost similar having later evolved into exotic and "flat faced Persians" due to human intervention in their breeding.

Harvey,

You are right when you say that the contemporary TA looks very little like the Zoo TA. That is because in Europe, during the wa, when the vast majority of breeds nearly became extinct, & because of the Zoo's prohibition on sales, which I understand has been a bit controversial because they do not keep the colored kittens born to their colony, but either toss them out on the street, or indeed DO sell, because I have a Canadian breeder acquaintance who's blue female has a Zoo cat in her third generation on her pedigree,many breeders of many of today's established cat fancy recognized breeds had no choice but to outcross to different breeds in order to keep the breed alive at all.

However, the fact remains that regardless of the DNA between the original Zoo cat, & the contemporary TA, they are BOTH recognized as TA's, & that is why a Zoo outcross derived cat is so highly valued in today's TA. The other thing is that you CAN still import a Turkish street cat, & have it be recognized as a TA if it meets basic breed standards, & is documented as having come from the country of origin, as a friend of mine is working on with a mother & daughter pair that someone brought over & left with a breeder when they moved & could not keep the cats. The mother is white, the daughter is blue. They have the original air way bills & vet records from Turkey to show that they came from country of origin, & they do meet the Zoo cat look. There are steps within the registering bodies for several cat breeds to do this. The Japanese Bobtail is another one you can do this with, & is the first one that comes to mind.

Like I said, there are curently 2 "looks" within the breed, & Zoo style cat is what is preferred on the bench in some areas, & the contemporary TA in others. Mostly the judges seem to prefer a happy medium. We as breeders will always revere & highly value the origins of our breed, whatever they are, they are shrouded in history, & I don't believe we will EVER 100% know the truth.

Thank you very much for taking the time to provide, what is for me, original and valuable material.

It doesn't get much better than this. You know more than me about this cat breed but I just speculated about the Turkish Angora and Van on this page: Where the Turkish Angora and Turkish Van the same cat?

It seems that what is to be expected has happened namely that breeders in the USA have drifted away from the true cat breed.

There are numerous examples of that. Perhaps almost all cat breeds are not the same as they were 50 years ago.

I am not sure if I have got any more photos in an email but I might have missed it. If you have sent me an email with more pics, I upload them of course.