Just before Christmas Babz and I noticed that Walter, one of our 13 year old cats, was drinking water, which he has never done in his life before. Both Walter and Jozef are fed wet food so he was obviously getting enough moisture that way. As he isn’t overweight and has only the best food, we didn’t think it could be diabetes, so we dreaded a diagnosis of kidney failure.
Our vet Sarah took a blood sample, which she was able to test immediately and find his kidneys were very healthy. In fact it showed all Walter’s organs were very healthy, but it did indicate a high level of glucose. So she sent off some blood to an outside lab for more detailed information. His Fructose test at the lab showed a count of 519, the usual range is 0 to 340. His glucosamine test showed a count of 24, the ideal is 5-10.
Walter had diabetes!
What had caused it? Not his weight, not his diet, either he was a cat prone to it or stress was the culprit. He’s always been a very anxious sort of cat and took a spate of bereavements we had, very badly. Also we had problems for a while last year with a neighbour’s cats out all day and night and coming on to his territory and trying to come in our house. Jozef is a very laid back cat but Walter takes things to heart .
Our world fell apart at Walter’s diagnosis, because our cats are our world.
We had a miserable Christmas worrying how this would turn out, would Walter’s treatment be effective, would his anxiety become worse with vets trips and twice daily needles. But although the news was bad, it could have been worse, as at least diabetes is treatable. The insulin our vets use is Caninsulin and we were comforted to hear it gave very good results in controlling diabetes in cats and some cats even go into remission. It’s interesting that this can happen to cats but not to people or dogs.
He had to have 2 units of insulin injected twice daily, we settled on 7.30am and 7.30pm but he was a terrible patient! He soon knew the time and led us a merry dance around the house. The injection didn’t hurt him at all, it’s a very fine needle but it took the two of us to do the job.
He had to have a high protein, low fat diet, we tried the diabetic food but Walter didn’t like it, so we researched the brands to find the best for him and Sarah approved it all.
It was weeks of to and fro the vets and blood tests and stress for Walter and for us and for poor Jozef who started being wary of us too.
Walter was supposed to regularly stay in at the vets all day for 2 hourly glucosamine tests, but the first time, he wouldn’t eat all day and just hunched miserably in the back of the cage in between them testing him, so Sarah decided she wouldn’t put him through that again. We took him in to see her every few days, then weekly, then fortnightly and his blood counts improved and came down gradually and she was pleased with his progress.
Then a fortnight ago out of the blue he was unwell, he seemed very tired, we’d been watching for signs of hypoglaecemia of course (too low blood sugar) so we gave him some honey and took him in to see Sarah.
He had very suddenly gone into remission!
His blood test results that day were all those of a non diabetic cat. We knew it could happen, but normally the insulin dose is decreased and tapered off. But his pancreas didn’t need any help any more, it was making its own again. We had hoped and prayed it would happen to Walter, but it still felt like a miracle. So the insulin was stopped.
But poor Walter had been through so much trauma his little body was protesting and he went off his food. He was due for a check-up anyway and Sarah found his blood still normal, she had run lab tests again the week before and there was nothing at all wrong with him physically. Last year both our cats had some sort of unknown virus and we wondered if that had flared up again, a virus doesn’t show in blood tests.
Sarah gave him a battalion of injections to cover all eventualities and to our amazement he started eating as soon as we got back home and he’s eaten well since. Now we need to build him up again as he has lost weight, his back is quite bony but he’s as large as life and loving his new scratching pad and he has some new special catnip mice ordered too. He deserves only the best!
Sarah also sold us a diffuser called Pet Remedy, it’s fairly new, similar to Feliway (which has never been of much use to us) but is made with natural ingredients, including valerian, which is very calming. Walter loves it, when we plugged it in he sat by it sniffing the aroma and it really does seem to have helped his anxiety.
We’ve lived through a very stressful, worrying and expensive time, the money we put aside monthly for our cats veterinary needs was soon swallowed up with vets consultations, blood tests, lab fees, insulin, syringes and the disposal unit for them, but no matter, we’d gladly give our last penny for our cats.
At the time of diagnosis we were asked to think about the lifelong expense of having a diabetic cat and the commitment needed to care for him, some people apparently can’t manage that and the cat either goes untreated or is PTS. There was no question in our minds, we of course agreed to do whatever it took to care for Walter.
We had the support of some lovely people who cared too, some of whom we met via PoC. Dee has been a tower of strength, she even offered help with our enormous vets bills. Also, knowing we couldn’t help Kays Hill financially ourselves at present, she has sent them monthly donations! Dorothy, Jo, Ruth (Monty’s mom) Leah, Cindy, to name a few more in no particular order, also Kevin and Leanne from Kays Hill, along with many Facebook anti-declaw friends, have asked after him and are rejoicing with us at his remission. It means a lot to us that some people cared so much.
Remission doesn’t mean cure of course, we will always have to feed him the high protein, low fat diet and watch him closely and take him for regular blood tests, but we feel very lucky right now that he is feeling so well and he even caught a big mouse today! Although Jozef outshone him, bringing home a rabbit!
Last week, light headed with relief at Walter’s remission, we had a laugh with Sarah. As yet more expense mounted up, I said well there was nothing else for it, we’d have to go and sell our bodies on a street corner to pay that bill. I think the thought of two over 60s doing that really amused her and even more so when I said, sadly even if we did manage to attract any comers, it was likely to be the other way round, that we’d have to pay them!
She’s such a lovely person, she’s gentle and kind and strokes and talks to the cats and apologises when she has to stick needles in, we are very lucky to have found her in our practice of many vets.
For anyone interested in the finer details these were his blood results at the vets from the diagnosis to the remission.
Glucosamine (blood from ear) test (4 to 9 is ideal):
- 24
- 8.7
- 8.1
- 7.2
- 7
- 5.7
- 6.1
Fructose Lab test (0 – to 340 is the usual range)
- 519
- 314
- 254
The insulin has to be kept refrigerated and gently mixed before drawing the dose, it must not be shaken. After 28 days any remaining Insulin has to be discarded and a new bottle must be started.
It all seemed so very daunting at first and we spent hours on the internet reading about feline diabetes, but at the end of the day every cat is individual and we were very lucky that our much loved Walter came from such a high glucose level to remission in just 10 weeks.
We have to take him back for a weekly check up on Monday and then hopefully it may be a month, as long as all is well.
The comments have been closed. However Ken wanted to respond and I have allowed it. The comments will be closed again. Sorry. That is my decision.
Here we go, Thanks again….I know this will continue to antagonize people on your point and I will understand if it is not allowed.
Many of us who have cats have researched feline nutrition and have come to the conclusion that wet food is better and healthier for cats then dry food.
Well where do you get the nerve to say that you know more then most vets about feline nutrition?
After all the vet has that education, that degree, and that experience. Who are you to tell the vet that you will not feed dehydrating low protein KD to your crf cat?
You are the owner, the caregiver that has the most interest in your cat’s health cause it is part of your family, that’s who.
You cannot possibly expect that a vet knows everything about every disease and problem that every domesticated animal would have, can you?
Do you believe that 10 20 30 years ago that the treatment for a disease may have been wrong back then and has been changed? How about even if the treatment worked, could it possible have been improved over time? When did your vet go to school? What was the last course your vet took?
Not all medicine works as simple as taking 2 pills for a headache. I bring this up because ultimately, the responsibility to take care of our loved ones as well as ourselves is on us.
Feline diabetes treatment has changed a lot over the years.
I am going to take the comments by me and the OP and put them together so the complete story is there. I just ask that you have an open mind and read all the evidence of what was written before making a decision of what is right and wrong here.
From the first post of OP (Original Poster)
It was weeks of to and fro the vets and blood tests and stress the first time, he wouldn’t eat all day and just hunched miserably. We took him in to see her every few days, then weekly, then fortnightly. Then a fortnight ago out of the blue he was unwell, he seemed very tired, watching for signs of hypoglaecemia so we gave him some honey and took him in. He had very suddenly gone into remission!
But poor Walter had been through so much trauma his little body was protesting and he went off his food.
My first post.
As stress and other factors can raise the blood glucose they cannot get the correct information to be able to tell a person how much insulin to give. You don’t want to go to these appointments.
(I wrote this cause the vets cannot get a correct blood glucose number at the office making dosing advice based on those numbers dangerous).
The number 2 cause of diabetes is steroids. Your cat could have been killed, crippled, blinded or lost some of it’s minds function. That is what hypoglycemic attacks can do. The scary thing is that you are no where close to being alone. Now I am going to take some of what was written in response and put it together with what I wrote.
op
nor has Walter had excessive steroids. We believe our vet when she says that’s the ONLY reason Walter developed it!
YES she found no other reason at all, some cats are prone to it, but it was decided that stress caused Walters.
Me (before it was written the cat had been given steroids).
The number 2 cause of diabetes is steroids
OP
Walter was never in danger That is what hypoglycemic attacks can do at the first sign of it we acted and he is living proof that our vet is far from ignorant about diabetes repeated from first post
But poor Walter had been through so much trauma his little body was protesting and he went off his food.
Me
You went to the vet for glucose tests that will never be accurate and based dosing on inaccurate information.
New comment by me
Is not the definition of a hypoglycemic attack an overdose of insulin???
OP
Walter IS in remission, he did NOT have a hypoglaecimic episode because at the very first sign of his change in attitude we stopped his insulin, gave him honey and got him to our vet exactly as she had instructed us to.
Why would you give honey and take him to the vet if there was no hypo? Why was he so poorly that he wouldn’t eat after? Would it not have been better for the cat if you definitely knew at that time you gave honey whether or not the cat was having a hypoglycemic attack?
By far I think what is written directly below is what people have to think about.
Me
You went to the vet for glucose tests that will never be accurate and based dosing on inaccurate information.
Ask your vet if she would give the full dose of insulin if the blood glucose before the shot was 2.5. I am sure the vet would say no. Well how would you know if you didn’t test?
How did you find out your cat didn’t need insulin? Through the vet right? Did remission happen instantly or were you giving insulin that could kill to a cat that didn’t need it before you went to the vet and found out?
So my question is was insulin given when it was not needed and did remission happen at the exact same time the cat was taken to the vets?
Up to you to decide.
I want to address the questions posed by Ruth at the end of the thread.
So how come Walter is in remission if our vet is so dangerous and the insulin she prescribes is so horrible?
Walter is in remission cause the cat overdosed on insulin and shocked the pancreas into working again
So how is a diabetic cat regularly physically checked over by email? His temperature, his heart, his gums, his general condition?
Are we talking about diabetes or a physical makeup? If something is wrong and you don’t know what it is, you should always see your vet. As far as diabetes is concerned, going to the vet makes it worse for the cat at least for that day.
It makes it worse cause as has been written in JAVMA
Stress raises the blood glucose and since this cat was ‘hunched miserably’ in 1 visit we can pretty much say the cat was stressed like all animals are when visiting the vets
How is blood taken by email.
It’s not. Since testing at the vet is inaccurate
then the tests need to be done at home as you would do with your own child to be checked for the continuing health of his internal organs.
Go to the vet for that if it is relevant and also sent off to a specialist lab for detailed fructose tests?
These tests should only be used to confirm or deny diabetes.
These tests give an average bg over a 2-3 week period and the results can be misleading.
If the numbers fluctuate everyday say between 2.5 and 18, the results of the fruc can show a healthy cat when that isn’t even close to true.
Cindy Dr Pierson
She knows me and Dr. Pierson wrote her diabetes article after coming to the board I use to work on to learn about diabetes. This also answers another of your questions as she mentions the board on her site. Email her She knows me as Ken and Sneakers.
I left the board about 8 years ago as politics got in the way of helping cat and also many people feel more comfortable on a one to one basis over a public board. I decided that there were people who didn’t know anything was wrong while they were treating their cats and those were the people that needed to be reached out to
But where is some of the evidence?
As the spreadsheets that I use to work with people can be edited by anyone, I cannot post them in a public forum. If you are really interested though, email me and I will send you a copy of 10 spreadsheets of cats who have diabetes. Ask me questions about them and then I will send you another 10 and you can ask questions about them. We can keep doing that until you are satisfied.
You think I am wrong about everything here? That’s ok but for your own sake prove it. Test your cat so you know what is going on and if it is safe to give insulin.
Best to everyone
Michael, that kind of advice he is giving is dangerous. Not so much to the informed and educated cat owner, but to a younger or more gullible person that has not had much experience with cats. Someone mentioned Tanya’s site in this thread, but she has basically published all her advice and findings on line with references and sources. She has even put it into book form. There is a huge difference in the approach. She is not telling anyone not to go to a vet’s appointment.
This is the problem with Ken and his advice. He wants you to completely take the vet out of the equation and only listen to him because he has all the answers.
And, DITTO here also!
What’s scary about this is if someone would read Ken’s first response to this article and take his advice because he is saying if your very ill cat is sick, do not go to a vet appointment, email him, and he will get your cat healed without ever seeing the cat, the cat’s environment, and/or meeting the cat’s owners in person. And then to proclaim that he doubts very much stress was a cause of the diabetes because the number one cause is dry food, unaware that Walter is not eating dry food. I believe Dr Pierson for years and years has been proclaiming the dry food for many illnesses caused in the cat and rightly so. So that was not a news flash or a conclusion that Ken came up with while he has diagnosed thousands according to him.
Surely there is a paper written up for basic care of the cat when first being contacted by someone that is requesting help. Is there a link to that or is that information only given by email? Do you have a website? Can you direct us to the forum board where you give advice to owners of diabetic cats? Have you written a paper that we can read on diabetes in the cat? How is anyone suppose to take you serious when you make such bold statements that you are an expert and all veterinarians are pretty much morons? I go to a clinic in Houston, Tx where there are 4 board certified feline specialists. They wouldn’t make the claims that you are making and call themselves experts on diabetes and believe me, they are very knowledgeable in the latest medications and care of the cat.
Ken, it’s easy to sit behind a keyboard and call yourself an expert and that you have saved thousands of cats, but where is some of the evidence?
I have had to return to PoC ONE LAST TIME because I will not have the possible death of someone’s diabetic cat on my conscience by saying nothing, so here goes….
Some quotes from MICHAEL
The information provided by Ken is potentially useful.
I think Ken’s comment was useful and I welcome his input. I hope he is not upset.
All you had to do was to ignore it if you didn’t like it.
Some quotes from Ken
Here is the really bad news. By far most vets are not up to date with the correct treatment of this disease and some can be dangerous in their advice. Unfortunately this vet that has worked with your cat is a classic example of the wrong way to do this.
You don’t want to go to these appointments. Get in touch with me at justken@rocketmail.com, I will tell you what you should buy and teach you how to test and aside from being more accurate it will probably be cheaper then the vet appointment.
I doubt that your cat got diabetes from stress.
Caninsulin is a horrible insulin for cats.
‘Unfortunately this vet that has worked with your cat is a classic example of the wrong way to do this’
So how come Walter is in remission if our vet is so dangerous and the insulin she prescribes is so horrible ??????????
Worst of all of this is:
YOU DON’T WANT TO GO TO THESE APPOINTMENTS.
So how is a diabetic cat regularly physically checked over by email? His temperature, his heart, his gums, his general condition?
How is blood taken by email, to be checked for the continuing health of his internal organs and also sent off to a specialist lab for detailed fructose tests?
MICHAEL
All you had to do was to ignore it if you didn’t like it
How could anyone ignore the fact that missing vet appointments is the last thing you should do if you have a diabetic cat.
I hope no one’s cat dies because of bad ‘advice’ not to attend veterinary appointments
Enough said!
Thank you to the loyal people who have commented supportively here, along with the emails and PMs I am very touched by it and by your sadness that I will not be around PoC any more.
.
A good news on facebook was WALTER’s cure and today I visited PoC for Gabriel, if there was any video update but all above discussion made me 🙁
Me too Ahsan 🙁 I feel for Ruth and Babz Maybe Ken meant well but just too agressive and negative about the vet Sara that after all got Walter into Remission!!!
No one can be an expert on diabetes because it isn’t an exact science and never will be because there are too many variables.
I agree that Ken was a bit heavy-handed but…the reaction was also heavy-handed. It did not spoil the article in my view. The article is useful and educational. People sharing thoughts on the internet in articles and comments have to expect and accept the odd comment which they find difficult. It happens all the time. There are far worse comments than Ken’s. He was trying to help. It was the style. This has been blown up out of all proportion; a classic mountain out of a mole hill. Very disappointing.
This is Ruth aka Kattaddorra saying goodbye to PoC, I will not be visiting again, so no point in replying to any of my comments, nor emailing me.
I know who my friends are and I value them greatly and that’s the only thing to thank PoC for, the ones who I met here.
I hate to say it but you created a problem that was not there through provocative comments. It was in your hands to keep things calm. You choose not to. Disappointing.
I am sorry for the trouble I caused you and the board and I do appreciate you allowing me to post and for your support in realizing that my intentions were not to cause trouble or problems or bad feelings for anyone but to help and educate people.
I believe that everyone on this board including my detractors absolutely love their animals and would do anything in their power to make sure that their animals are safe happy and thriving. It would be a shame for people who care, who have valuable information and friends, who fight against declawing,who fight for a cat’s health and well being to leave this board cause of me or the moderators decision to allow these posts. If a public place is to be fair, different opinions on things whether liked or hated need to be allowed to be posted if no rules have been broken.
Since I am not a regular poster on this board and would only be back to answer questions about feline diabetes, I hope the people threatening to leave will reconsider their decision as even an uplifting story about something can help someone else with their cats and can save lives
Best to everyone
Michael I’m sorry but how would you feel if Gabriel had been sick then with your diligence and care along with your vets expertise you had turned him around back to full health only to write an article about for someone to make arrogant, accusing, I know it all statements? I can totally understand how Ruth feels I would feel the same myself to have everything I’d done bought down to some insignificant level by someone who isn’t even qualified to make such statements!!
If he had been a bit more humble and made it clear from the start that he wasn’t qualified and offered a bit of praise for their success with Walter then going on to state that what he was offering was just advice and nothing more but no his initial comment was full on and negative!! I really feel that the way his initial comment was written anyone in Ruth and Babzposition would have done the same me included! I think it was Ken that was provocative because he was so full of himself and way too arrogant!!
Sorry I know you asked me to leave it and now I will but sometimes things just have to be said.
I too am sorry if I’ve offended anyone but I just had to say how I feel
DITTO!!!