1. ‘just using religion to get what they want, to look good in front of others or to “see and be seen” as Ruth puts it’
   This is why I stopped going to Church, there are too many people now who use it as a social occasion, not only at Sunday Services but also I am always shocked when attending a funeral and people come in wearing everyday clothes, sometimes carrying shopping, looking around for friends, waving and then gossiping. They talk over the organ music, even the people who regularly go to Church. I may be old fashioned but to me a person’s funeral is to honour their lifetime, quietly reflect on them and say goodbye to them.
   I think the problem nowadays is that many people have no respect for others.
   My Faith is shaky I know, because of the way the world is and how it’s getting worse, I would now rather go into the country, to a beautiful place and think how wonderful Nature is, than sit in a Church with people who have forgotten the reason they are there.
   Ruth I so very much admire you and your unwavering Faith, it must be very difficult and I wish I was as good a person as you are.

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   • Ruth, I believe you do have Christ’s light in your heart, but that flame is shaking and wavering because you probably have no opportunities to meet Him. And this evil world, especially the cruelty committed against innocent animals, can easily pull anyone into despair.

     I fear the churches in Britain, like so many over here, have abandoned Christ although they still bear His name.

     You would be far better off finding a quiet place in nature, but bringing with you the New Testament. Read Romans.

     St. Paul participated in the stoning of Stephen and he made it his goal to execute or imprison as many Christians as he could. Something, or rather Someone changed him into the greatest theologian the church has ever known. That’s why I suggest reading his letter to the Romans, because in doing so you will meet the same Jesus St. Paul met on the road to Damascus.

     I know so many people want the Bible to deal more with environmental issues and better treatment of animals. Christians can still work for those things and should. I know a few Christians who are vegetarians because they cannot support the abuses of animals in large corporate farms. But in Biblical days you didn’t have that– animals lived in much better conditions than today. If you wanted meat you were well aware that that involved the death of another living creature. Today, who reflects on that while at the grocery store? Historically, believers ate meat rarely, at high festivals only, and did so as a reminder of Christ’s sacrifice, who is our meat and drink indeed. Humans in Bible times also weren’t paving over practically every square inch of the earth and burning fossil fuels to the point that almost all their kids had asthma like today.

     The point of the Bible is to know Jesus. He says to seek first His kingdom and His righteousness and “all these things shall be added unto you.” He knows our desires for a cleaner earth, better treatment for animals as well as a way out of poverty for the millions suffering. But first He restores our relationship with His Father. Once that is done we can approach Him and ask for anything, as dear children ask their earthly fathers.

     Read Romans. Pray for all the things this poor old earth needs and continue to work for them with your Heavenly Father’s blessing.

     Remember too that there is no Christian, living or dead, who never lost faith. Even John the Baptist sent word from prison to Jesus, “Are you the One, or should we look for another?” But Jesus never lets go of us. He hung on for us where it mattered, on the cross. If He did that for us He can keep His promises: “Behold, I am making all things new,” and “They shall not hurt nor harm on all My holy mountain.”

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     • Thank you Ruth, I will read Romans. I badly want to have Faith because sometimes I feel quite lost and as if I’m searching for something, I dream that way too, I’m always alone, far from home and no way to get back.
       I had some peaceful times staying at retreats for a few days, recommended by a Priest friend, when I was very depressed and grieving, but wouldn’t even want to go back to any of those now.
       If we don’t have Faith, what do we have, what is the point of our existence?
       I just don’t know x

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2. This article and all the comments are deeply insulting to me. I tried to post what Christianity really teaches, and my comment was deleted. Also, there are almost no seven day creationists left and we aren’t even tolerated in our own denominations. The Missouri Synod Lutheran Church, which is my church for now, subscribes to theistic evolution and bans the teaching of seven day creation in their schools, refusing to graduate anyone from their universities who will not accept theistic evolution.

   Nevertheless, since the Bible clearly teaches it, that is what I believe. And although almost no humans believe it anymore I am not in the minority. God plus anyone is a majority. For me and my house we will serve The Lord. There is no way believing what the only true God tells us about Himself or how He made this world can make me a bad person or a bad caretaker for Monty.

   Believing everything evolved by accident will not lead anyone to respect life. Believing all life was created, is protected and valued by God can only lead to a loving response toward all He has made. That it does not has nothing to do with the revealed Word of God, but with the fact they humans are just as the Bible describes them. Evil.

   And though I am evil, I know how to do right by the small black cat given to me as a gift from a loving God. How anyone could believe that my knowledge of my creator (and his) could make me a worse person is beyond me. But since that is how you all feel, I give up. There is no place for me here anymore.

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   • Ruth, I am very sorry you feel insulted. That is not the intention, obviously. Your comments are never deleted. Never. They are always welcome. You are free to write what you want as are other people. If you want to restate the comment that you think was deleted please do so.

     Ruth, I don’t want you to go. It is important that you stay for the sake of cat welfare. I am very sorry. We disagree on this basic belief (creationism). It is a fundamental belief but it doesn’t mean you are not welcome and it does not mean we disagree on everything else. We agree on 90% of things.

     People are just expressing their opinions on creationism. I think we have a right to do that because as stated it can affect our relationship with animals. I can’t censor myself and pretend something just to please someone. One of the most important aspects of this site is openness and transparency. We can disagree but still help animals and cats and get along just fine. We have done for years.

     But as I stated the intention is not to insult. I don’t think you should feel insulted because the discussion is not personal but if you are, once again, I sincerely apologise.

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     • Thanks, Michael. I guess my other comment was just lost in cyberspace, but I thought perhaps you pulled it. I should know you better than that, and I’m sorry. It just would have been nice if even one person had remembered that there is a seven day creationist in this group who is a good cat caretaker.

       Part of the problem is that the true Church is invisible. No one can tell who really has Christ in his or her heart or who is just using religion to get what they want, to look good in front of others or to “see and be seen” as Ruth puts it.

       Today one can call himself a Christian while calling Christ a liar. Jesus spoke of Noah and Adam as being real people and events like the creation and the flood as really happening. It’s frustrating being able to find only a few pastors here and there who actually take Jesus at His Word. If we say He is a liar, then why do we worship Him?

       But it was always this way– only a few who believed. There are fewer than ever today. What are the odds that you’ve never actually met a member of Christ’s church except for me (I mean the true, invisible church) but only have had experience with people twisting the Bible to give them permission to do whatever they want? There is a huge difference between a person who has the light of Christ in them and someone who merely claims to for their own ends. Even the demons can quote scripture, but no one will be edified by this.

       However, even those with Christ in their hearts still sin, and I did sin against you by getting angry. My pride popped up and said, “Enough already!” when I really don’t have the right to say that. God has obviously called me to be a part of PoC and to be your friend, which all happened through his sending Monty to me. I know that right in the middle of a website hosting change glitches could happen.

       I can’t reproduce my comment entirely because that was this morning and I can’t remember what I said. Except for this: Jesus is the only one who has dominion over animals and I believe it was this same Jesus who four years ago told Monty to stay sitting there a moment longer so that he would lose sight of his mom and siblings. He told Monty to run around to the back of the house and get cornered by the stairs while whispering to me that that is what he would do so I could catch him. Because Monty has a sinless soul I learn so much from him. I have no dominion over him, but am lead by him like a little child to know my Savior better. How that happens could fill a book, which maybe one day I’ll get around to writing.

       Sorry again that I was crabby. It’s no excuse but my feet are cold. It’s freezing here!

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       • Fantastic Ruth. It isn’t only cats and PoC who need you. I do too. I want you as a friend. I realised that after I made my comment in response. I respect your beliefs. Each person should respect the beliefs of others provided they don’t harm the planet, animals and people.

         As I said in my email, I do believe that it is quite possible that there is a creator of the universe. Perhaps this God is not that different from yours.

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3. I LOVE this..and I am deeply touched by Marc’s comment. And as a staunch DemoCAT I must heartily agree. The first time President Obama ran for office a group of Dems created a page- Cats for Obama. I did not see anything coming from the RePUPlican side. Not a peep. The “Cats for Obama” was a highly active group – I was disappointed when they didn’t come out again in 2012.

   And what about the Dog loving candidate, Romney, who put his dog in a crate on top of his car … while traveling on a trip with his family. On top of his CAR? Excuse me.

   It makes me crazy to hear some of Repubicans who are way way way way over to the right expound that we were created 6,000 years ago… sigh..and that the big bang never happened.. With all the new exciting scientific discoveries proving the Big Bang theory, what more will it take to convince them?

   As far as cats are concerned, the majority of my friends who are owned by cats are DemoCats. Many of the dog people I know are Republicans.

   While there were several cats that owned Republican Presidents,Democratic Presidents Kennedy and Clinton had some very famous kitties living in the While House.

   President Lincoln- a Republican whom today would without a doubt have been a Democrat,(after all he freed the slaves) was the first president to bring felines into the White House.

   In fact, in my experience the Democrats that I know don’t refer to themselves as “owners”- they consider themselves “guardians” or “staff” to their beloved felines.

   Nuff said? LOL

   Happy Mew Year to everyone.

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4. I agree that creationism is “way out there”.
   However, here, everyone has the right to believe in anything they like.
   No person can be denied the right to be nominated and/or elected to an official post based on their beliefs or practices. That’s discrimination.
   Like it or not, a satanist, atheist, holy roller, or even E.T. can be elected if they get on the poll.
   In any case, are Dems better cat owners? I want to say “yes” but that’s only because I am a fairly liberal Dem and my opinion of most republicans are that they are tightasses!

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   • However, here, everyone has the right to believe in anything they like.

     Good point. Totally agree. I respect all beliefs but I still strongly disagree with creationists and I don’t like what underpins it: the superiority of humans and that animals were created to support humans. That is the impression I get.

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   • Dee – it’s the same in other western countries – but what I’m more concerned with is not the politicians ‘personal’ beliefs but more the problem of religious belief systems controlling politics.

     Case and point being the age old question of abortion. It should not be age old – once abortions were possible the discussion should have ended. It’s not progressive and it’s downright backwards to legislate and make abortion a question of law in principle. Of course there needs to be law surrounding everything, but a person’s rights to have a baby or not should be left to that person. Making abortion legally a hard thing to do is theocratic. In some places women must wear such and such and in other places they are challenged for wanting to have an abortion – both are for the same reasons in the sense that they are because of the predominant religion in the area concerned.

     The other very good example is the ‘global gag law’ or ‘order’ which prevents aid of any kind to institutions around the world which endorse or facilitate abortion. Again – it’s one thing to have personal views and live one’s own life as such but it’s quite another to impose your belief, by law, onto other people’s lives. The only reason I hard on about this is because I am offended by the fact that we are told certain western governments are ‘the good guys’ – the future, the ones who promote Freedom™ and it’s such utter bollocks. Yes perhaps we are more free, but at what cost, and to whom? And are we really free? and what about the 12 year old in a factory in Bangladesh who is making that very nice shirt you got for just 5 bucks? Is it fair to say our culture is the better one simply because on the surface it looks more desirable to us who are anyway conditioned to live with it? For me the overriding measurement – or sliding scale of value – comes in terms of the planet and animals and ecosystem. There is no greater irony than the fact that the people who live most differently to us, the ‘social other’, are doing the least damage to this planet, and suffering the most in many cases. So this brings us back to Freedom™.

     Michael – you are most probably right in your generalization – the belief system of creationism doesn’t bode well for animals. It’s all wrong. Furthermore it has led us to the edge of total collapse and destruction. I wonder this, just as an example: If the budhists had been the majority in history, would they have invaded other cultures and gone around taking from them what they pleased at the cost of people’s lives. Christians have been the the biggest deciders in where this planet is going and something about that religion has led the world down this path which Michael rightly points out to be one of sustenance from the earth’s ecosystem, where it is there for the use and luxury of humans with very few, if any, short term strings attached.

     However we know today that sustenance will only continue if it is achieved sustainably. Sustainability in the long term means to sustain every living thing in our ecosystem so it may continue to live since it is, in of itself, a living thing of which we are a part. We can’t reduce any part of it because it’s complex and every part is needed for it to survive.

     In this day and age the meaning of life has come down to the meaning of death. Humans don’t do life so well, but they sure as hell do death very well. Humans can’t see past their own noses let alone their own lifetimes – and christianity is a part of that. I think the idea of heaven and hell is just a way out of the here and now. The idea that a priest can forgive you is just a way to continue doing bad things. I spent from the age of 8 until 18 going to church every weekend and in some cases earlier on, every day, repeating the prayers and hymns over and over such that I can still remember them now word for word. This time of my life is a bad memory. Indoctrination. Compulsory theocracy. But coming back directly to the point of this article – I can’t say I came out of 10 years of semi religious education feeling like I had learn’t a darn thing about animals. Sure the animals are mentioned numerous times in the bible but the underlying message was always about something else. The sermon would be about anything and everything, but not caring for the animals and the trees. This christian indoctrination did not give me constructive or better relationship with the earth. It was almost always focused on other people or myself. Christianity teaches kindness to others and that is a good thing. But as Michael says, it doesn’t help us out of the real problem and perhaps has even created it, which is that we are all going to destroy ourselves and this planet in a matter of time.

     Surely the real meaning of life can be derived better from the mechanics of our once sustainable ecosystem. Surely the best and most good we can do is to emulate and live according to that lesson. Sure, love thy neighbour while you are at it, since that most likely is a lesson of sustainability too – all religions fit inside the greater fact of life here. For the true and most real answers don’t look to your god, look at the sky and look at the ground and look at all the life around you and try to understand how to take care of it as if it were your own child – and then you will already be where you need to be 🙂

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     • Wow Marc, what a great comment. And you are not even home! Safe travels and hurry home. Happy New Year.

       And Dee, I would vote for ET.

       Michael, I don’t think you will get a spirited back and forth on this subject in this forum. Consider your audience, for the most part. 99% cat lovers, we are. I don’t know many extreme right wing Republicans, though the scary part of Facebook is you find out more than you want to know about people. Thank goodness for the ” block” setting.

       Here, is to a sustainable ecosystem! I will toast to that. Happy New Year to all, and to your cats!

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       • You’re right DW. I don’t expect comments on this subject. It is, though, very important because it goes to the heart of a person’s attitudes towards animals or it should do.

         Also, I tend to pick topics that pop up and interest me. It is a bit philosophical and it is about people :). Cat lovers want to read about cats, I know. However, cats live in a human world. What we do is everything to a cat.

         Happy New Year DW to you and your family. You have a nice cat friendly home. I wish I was a cat living in your home.

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     • Fantastic comment. I am not very philosophical. I am pragmatic and practical but, things are not right and to disbelieve Darwin’s theory is not good. It disturbed me to read that more US right wingers are creationists than before. It is a growing concept amongst a segment of society.

       For me the overriding measurement – or sliding scale of value – comes in terms of the planet and animals and ecosystem..

       I agree because, for me, this a measurement of how good we are at survival in the long term (we just can’t get it right long term). It measures how sensible and intelligent we are and how harmonious world society is (it is not harmonious and it is dysfunctional).

       The sermon would be about anything and everything, but not caring for the animals and the trees.

       Christianity has a bad history in its relationship with animals, which is the point I am making. They have tried to clean the religion up but the history is so poor that it is a ball and chain around the religion.

       the mechanics of our once sustainable ecosystem..

       There was a time, perhaps, millions of years ago when briefly early humans lived within a sustainable ecosystem and they did not disturb it. The more “advanced” we became, the more we demanded too much from nature. We decided we were above nature and could do as we pleased with it. Cat breeding to extreme to “refine” the natural cat is an example. The result? Crap! Sometimes a distorted cat that is more ill than the original.

       look at the sky and look at the ground and look at all the life around you and try to understand how to take care of it as if it were your own child

       This quote requires a book to respond to it. Christianity has failed. It is failing. It continues to fail in the UK because it is wrong and unhelpful — this is my personal viewpoint. I would expect Christianity to fail in the USA in the future. I respect all viewpoints. Please don’t be upset by my ideas.

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     • What a comment, Marc!
       I love it when you get all fired up!
       You make a lot of sense; but, what are some solutions?
       As they say, “Bells can’t be unrung”.

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       • It is an amazing comment. It must be a subject that interests him! Great.

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5. The Repugnanticans believing in creationism should be illegal.

   Any kind of religious extremism should not be allowed in politics. It’s far too dangerous to give political power to religious extremists. Is America ‘God’s Country’ and therefore some kind of partial theocracy like Iran, or is it a normal country like other westernized countries?

   That question really is crucial and hangs in the balance in this day and age. Will the repugnanticans still be talking about abortion in 10 years from now without any advancement in the way they think? Religions either stay put or go backwards while the rest of the world is trying to move forwards.

   Happy New Year everybody – I’ll be back in a few days – yay – I can’t wait 🙂

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   • Happy New Year Marc X
     Not commenting on this article because it’s above my head lol haven’t a clue what republicans and democrats are.
     Happy New Year Michael if we don’t ‘speak’ before and THANK YOU for PoC and happy new year to this web site with its new server.

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     • Happy New Year Ruth and thank you for everything you have done for cats and PoC. Fabulous. You’re a classy lady.

       For democrats think Lib-Dems in England. For Republicans think Conservatives in England. That is the kind of difference in thinking.

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   • Is America ‘God’s Country’ and therefore some kind of partial theocracy like Iran..

     This is a really neat point Marc. It is a sort of theocracy. Bordering on that. I do think this has a bearing on attitudes towards animals.

     Happy New Year to you, Marc. We miss you as usual, just like your cats…we are cats…meow 😉

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